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Saturday, 31 December 2011

Misfits: Simon&Alisha: The Time Loop

Calling all Misfits fans...I've been doing a bit of thinking since the season finale and thought that it was about time that I shared some of my thoughts with you guys!! Now I know that many of you are very disappointed with the conclusion of series three (me included...I didn't want to lose Iwan or Antonia) and many of you think that it was all lazy writing on Howard's part...which is fair enough, time travel is always a touchy area...you're never quite treading on safe ground!! But I personally think that he did a solid job with the finale!! It had weight to it!! I think the main issue people have is with the point in time that Simon goes back...and trying to make sense of it all!! Well, I have given this a lot of thought and have come up with a reason!! So listen up, but feel free to disregard it if you wish to...

Basically! A time loop occurs when an event - EVENT A - causes another event - EVENT B - which then in turn causes the first event - EVENT A!! Lets put this into context...

In series two, Simon travels back in time and dies saving Alisha from the video game guy!! - This is EVENT A

As a result of EVENT A, Alisha falls in love with present day Simon, but then she is killed by Rachel!! - This is EVENT B

Which then causes Simon to go back in time!! - Which is again of corse EVENT A 

Very basic idea, but completely mind boggling!! So basically like a circle there is no real beginning and no end to the loop!! Both events are a direct result of each other which ultimately means they cancel each other out and neither of them actually come first - neither happens before the other!! 

I know it's all sounding a little complicated but stay with me guys! It shall all become clear! I hope.

Let me go back to my favourite example...which is of course Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban! I'm gonna skip the first chunk of the film and jump straight to the day in which Harry and Hermione travel back in time and save Sirius from being killed!! 

Before Harry and Hermione go back in time there are several events which happen that get them out of a few sticky situations - for example the stone hitting Harry on the head and warning them to leave Hagrid's hut, the wolves howl which distracts werewolf Lupin and stops his attack on Harry and Sirius, and the stag patronus which saves Harry and Sirius from the dementors! Now when Harry and Herminone go back in time we discover that it was actually their future selves saving them, and it was them going back in time that caused these events to happen - Hermione throws the stone which hits Harry on the head and also shes the one who makes the sound of the wolf howl, and it's Harry who casts the patronus which saves himself and Sirius!! But until they've gone back in time, these are just events which occur, which get the gang out of tricky situations but have no real meaning or weight behind them! Just lucky coincidences!! 

So getting back to Misfits - if Alisha had never discovered the true identity of Superhoodie, who would have been behind the mask!! It may never have become Simon!! Alisha is the only one who discovers Superhooodie's true identity whilst he is still alive, and as soon as that happens the time line ahead of her is altered to guarantee the enevitability of Simon eventually travelling back in time! So, heading back over to my previous example if Harry and Hermione had travelled back in time and instead of hiding in the shadows had donned superhoodie type ninja costumes, they would have become living, know entities in the present - and the events which they cause would suddenly have weight and meaning behind them...and also an ayr of mystery might I add!

So if Simon had gone back in time and hidden in the shadows, saving the gang but never being seen, then the events caused by him would just be lucky coincidences to the gang, and would only have weight and meaning once Simon had gone back in time and discovered that it was actually him causing the events!! But then if this happened Simon and Alisha would never fall in love, which is of course the crux of the whole story!!

Which leads us back to the EVENT A causes EVENT B causes EVENT A dilemma!! So basically it was always going to happen this way! There nothing one can do to get out of a time loop!! It's one of those tricky paradoxes!!

And to address one more issue that fans are bringing up...why does Simon go back when Alisha dies? What's the point of him going back in time to save Alisha so that she will die anyway?

Well, my answer for this question is simple! From the luck of things it seems that in all timelines that we have seen, Alisha ends up dead!! In the cheese timeline she killed by the cheese guy! In the Nazi time line she is smoked to death by tear gas! She was nearly shot by the video game guy! Then nearly hung by the crazy girl who could stop time! Was nearly thrown off the roof by Sally! And then she's actually killed by Rachel who slits her throat! So, to be honest I don't think Alisha was destined to live a very long live unfortunately!! So, Simon has to go back when he does! He can't bare the thought of spending the rest of his life without Alisha, and so this is where he must go back!! Which explains why his future self so willing dies for Alisha when saving her from the video game guy!

Still not convinced! Look at it this way! If Alisha hadn't died Simon would have no reason to go back and leave Alisha! He loves her too much to hurt her by going back and dying - and Alisha would never let him leave!! I don't think he would ever have found a reason to leave her side...unless maybe they broke up and so he goes back in time to fall in love with her all over again! Which is sad!! And we wouldn't have wanted that! Alisha dying is the only thing big enough to sent Simon back!!

QUESTION TIME: Why doesn't Simon warn Alisha that she is going to have her throat slit by Rachel when he goes back in time?...Well, because if he did that, then Alisha wouldn't die when she does, and Simon wouldn't go back in time when he's suppose to, resulting in Alisha being shot by video game guy!!
AND: Why does Simon bother going back in time to save Alisha from the video game guy only for her to die months later?...Well, firstly because he loves her! And secondly because if he didn't then he would never have loved her!! And as they say it's better to have loved and lost then never to have loved at all. AND the accompanying question: Why doesn't he save her but keep his identity hidden so that she doesn't fall in love with him? My answer: they still would have ended up together. It was inevitable.

Conclusion...lets rename the events:

EVENT A - Simon dies
EVENT B - Alisha dies
EVENT A - Simon dies
EVENT B - Alisha dies
EVENT A - Simon dies
EVENT B - Alisha dies
EVENT A - Simon dies
EVENT B - Alisha dies
EVENT A - Simon dies
Etc...
It's a Simon-Alisha sandwich of love! Loop of love! Tower of love! Infinity of love! Whatever you want to call it!! 

RIP Simon and Alisha!! We love you...
Forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and...ect!!

(this song reminds me of them so much xx)

Love Naomi

xxx

22 comments:

  1. I FINALLY GET IT! Thanks so much :)

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    1. My pleasure!! Glad I could help :)

      Naomi xxx

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  2. thank you so much!!! THE HARRY POTTER EXAMPLE DID THE TRICK.MY BRAINS NOT HURTING ANYMORE!!
    =D

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  3. Awesome! Glad I could help!! :) The Harry Potter example always does the trick...Harry potter has the answers to everything ha!!

    Naomi X

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  4. Thanks I really get it now but about then going to Los vages together when did happen if they bough die :,( ( I'm crying about the rising part) nd when do now simon end up with Alisha befor she died or after nd wouldn't make more we've if Simon knew future Simon so he would go back nd nd have Simon just watched over her ..... Or if futur Simon were a bullet prof vest so he doesn't have to die nd he keeps watching over Alisha so they can be together .. Sorry for all this but I really want them to be together I stand the thought of both of then dying or Simon being without Alisha :(

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    1. Hello, glad I could help!! It's nice to hear from other fans :)!!

      Las Vegas was mentioned in the online episode 'Vegas baby' and in the first episode of series 3, and also through the characters twitter accounts - it happened in between series 2 and 3. As for Simon wearing a bullet proof vest - when he goes back in time it's for good, there is no coming back Seth says...so if he hadn't died and instead stayed with Alisha...then present Simon would never have had a reason to go back in time because Alisha would have loved future Simon and never got to know then Present Simon...who ultimately has to become future Simon- this creates a paradox because if present Simon never goes back in time then he can't become future Simon and save Alisha...confusing I know! I hope that helps! :S

      They will be together forever...think of it this way they will never really die because Simon will always go back in time and make Alisha fall in love with him over and over and over again for eternity! They'll always be out there in their little time loop falling in love! <3

      Naomi

      xx

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  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. Simon and Alisha have already visited Las Vegas at the same time as Nathan does - except they leave before him and so do not appear in the online episode "Vegas baby" which explains Nathan's exit! This all takes place between series 2 and 3 and is mentioned briefly in the first episode of the third series! But it was mostly explained through the characters twitter accounts - Simon tweets about being in Vegas and having the photograph taken with Alisha by the Las Vegas sign! Which also explains why they have the photograph do openly pinned in the wall in their flat otherwise the gang would be confused as to when they went to Vegas! Maybe the directors will decide to make an alternative Vegas baby following sink. And Alisha's trip because many people are confused about it - but it defo already happened before series 3! Hope that helps!
      Naomi xxx

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  6. Here's my idea ; after future Simon dies he can leave letter saying what's going to happen to Alisha on the date, she wil remember this date and keep it in mind till series3 when it happens. Now remember christmas special when they got new powers if future Simon tells Alisha to stop only Nathan giving up his power he would be immortal. Now back 2 series 3 episode 8 where the spirts come back now Nathan came back with them after las vegas so he still there and rudy also, everything happens as normal in the episode but Rachel takes her revenge on Nathan because he is immortal and she does not know that her spirt moves on and they all keep living. Now you might say how does future Simon go back well he has already died and saved her so there is no need for going back in time because they will just continue in the living I the present quoting Alisha " you don't have 2 go back and save me im here in the present " well something like that. Also Curtis won't die because simon could use his powers so see Curtis was going to die and save him. I think in series 5 they all 4 of them should return and flash in and rudy would be like whatttt, al expect Kelly who can come back after Africa yes there will be 8 of them but who cares ;)

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  7. That sums it up nicely. Except I can’t see it as romantic or a good outcome (at least for S & A). Also they don’t get any eternity just because it’s a time loop. From their perspective they get a few months and see and know when the other one dies and then … they die.

    BUT…..

    I think we should give Simon a little more credit than “oh well, guess I’m going to give up on her and leave her dead. Going to get what I can out of this (I.E. a few months…and saving his other friends) at the cost of my life which I would not like very much without her”.

    WHAT IF?!

    Simon goes back and buys the immunity from Seth (without a mask), goes on to fix the apartment, saves everyone as Superhoodie as it happened BUT right after Nathan the others sell their powers he goes in to see Seth as Superhoodie and buys Nathan’s immortality and some other powers (the powers were sold rather fast).

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    1. Now immortal he GOES BACK IN TIME AGAIN (because the guys sell their powers later than Simons “dies” saving Alisha in the warehouse) and he just says out of his own way (there’s now 3 Simon’s running around, the shy one, the one that came back and saved everyone, and the latest & immortal one) until he saves Alisha.

      She burns him and leaves. He regenerates and goes back to Seth (as Superhoodie) and pays him to take his immortality and put it in Alisha (without telling her) when she will come and get her new power (so now she has two). Then he makes Seth forget about this with some other power he bought before.

      Now all he has to do is dig her up 30 mins after they buried her and they leave to save Nathan or for some other reason and don’t come back for a while (which is why Simon doesn’t save Curtis). Besides I’m sure Nathan can get himself out with all the “reality warping” thing he has going on.

      Everything has to happen as it happened (because otherwise they won’t be together and everyone will be dead because Simon doesn’t become Superhoodie) not because Simon want’s his few months with Alisha and thinks death for both is the best possible outcome.

      Best thing ever if they did all ^ that for the last episode in the last season (5) assuming the actors are up for it (which they might not be).

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  8. No matter how you look at it, time travel is a paradox- and thats the whole point. Everyone is supposed to and is going to come up with their own theories and ideas, and in the end all that matters is that it was a touching conclusion to the story arc.
    I found what you said about 'saving Alisha from getting her throat cut dooms her to die by video game guy' interesting, but you're forgetting that futue Simon was involved in influencing their events up to then as well, so if he didn't go back, events would have turned out differently, changing the timeline. Paradox.

    What's even more frustrating is that Future Simon appears to know exactly when everything is going to happen, including his own death- right down to the second (remember him looking at his watch before he jumped down and took the bullet for Alisha). So apparently according to Future Simon it all has to happen exactly as it did before, it has to be like this. This makes him inexplicably tied to the timeline- meaning he was always going to help Nathan get away on his bike and he was always going to save Alisha from videogame guy etc. Paradox.

    So my original thought was: what was the point of him going back? If he truly wanted to change her fate, he would have tried doing something differently. One can argue that not knowing how his actions will affect the future he is doomed to repeat the same mistakes again and again because he thinks he is actually saving Alisha. But this doesn't make sense because he seems to know exactly when everything is going to happen, and he does everything exactly as planned. He didn't go back in time to save Alisha from the videogame guy, he went back in time to save her from getting her throat cut. The Simon that exists at the time of the videogame incident has neither the emotional connection to Alisha or resources to go back in time, and someone else in the gang would have been better equipped at that time to handle the situation (like Curtis who still had his time travelling power). Again, the same paradox.

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    1. So, finally, if Simon "somehow" knowns exactly how his actions will affect what happens in the future (which doesn't make sense), why doesn't he change something before he dies? The answer here is that he chooses not to save her- He knows that if he saves her, he never goes back in time, so the timeline would completely change, most likely having a much worse outcome for the group without Future Simon watching over them, Alisha and everyone else including himself could die sooner and he would have no way of knowing the events of this timeline and no way of controlling them. If he doesn't chnage anything, he knows exactly what's going to happen, and thus decides to doom his and Alisha's fate for a "better outcome" so to speak. Once again, that question doesn't make any sense because there is no possible way Future Simon could have known exactly when and where these events were going to happen BEFORE created a timeline that caused him to be sent back in time- it's like saying the chicken came before the egg.

      On top of all this, the script is sloppy when it comes to continuity. When Alisha asks Future Simon if she's going to die in the future (Season 2) his response is "I'm not going to let that happen". So he was trying to change something? Paradox.
      Also, when he is dying, he makes Alisha promise not to tell present Simon about the future. How is present Simon supposed to become his future self if she didn't tell him who he was going to become? Paradox. She did end up telling him, and that's why he started training. If she didn't tell him who he was he wouldn't have become the same person and probably never travelled back in time when she was killed because he didn't know that's what he was supposed to do. If he never travelled back in time they would never have fallen in love. Paradox, Paradox. He had to know who he was going to become AND she had to die- for him to travel back in time- to tell himself who he was going to become. Paradox, Paradox, Paradox.

      So take comfort in knowing that nothing will ever make sense and it's all ultimately just about the feels. :)

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    2. Lastly, your Harry Potter analogy is interesting but it's crossing the boundary from a predestination loop into flat out predeterminism. What you're saying is that if Future Simon didn't reveal himself, the actions of Superhoodie (or their consequences) would always have been the same. While it's true that everything needs to happen exactly the same way for the timeline to continue as we know it, that's the whole nature of the paradox. It's one thing to say that Alisha had a high chance of dying in any possible timeline, but another to say that there was always going to be something that saved them at exactly the right moments, even if it wasn't Simon.

      More importantly, if these events were always going to happen no matter what, where do you draw the line? How do you tell the difference between what was always going to happen and what you could change? You can't really pick and choose. So you'd have to decide between everything being constant or nothing being constant- you can either change everything or you can't change anything- and either explanation doesn't fit in with your theory. So the actions of superhoodie are not predestined to happen by themselves (how can they be?)- it's always Simon travelling back in time that makes them happen. It's a common plot device used to make time travelling more exciting- that no how you change things around things will always turn out more or less the same: you save someone from dying and they die another way later, you stop something from happening but it happens a different way with the same outcome. In reality, that's not really true to logic. It's used as a way of tidying up the plot, because some major event HAS to happen for you to become the person who travelled back in time. In reality, if you change something in the past your present self ceases to exist, meaning you never went back in time to change the past- which is the Grandfather paradox.

      Here's an example: your wife got murdered so you built a time machine. She was supposed to die on Monday, you saved her but she still dies on Tuesday. Even though the catalyst for you building a time machine and going back in time is the same (your wife's death), the events happened differently, so contrary to what the writers want you to think- you don't exist because you can't be the same person that travelled back in time to save your wife from dying on Monday. Event predetermination of this kind is not even a paradox, its just a plot device that makes you feel like some things cannot be escaped. It's different to a predestination paradox, which causes itself to happen.

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  9. Hey guys, I just finished the 3 Season and I really don't want to continue the show without Simon and Alisha but I didn't like the end. Of course with a futur Simon it was logical that he had to die again and again and the reason of a future Simon is caused by the death of Alisha. So in some way it's a romantic ending but dramatic.
    But I agree with you why future Simon say to Alisha that he would change the future for her... he can save her once but not twice ...
    The real question is did they killed them cause the actors wanted to leave the show?
    One last question : the photo in Las Vegas can't be true... they can't touch themselves yet .. This photo is taken a few months before Alisha change her powers :)
    Anyway love that show and this characters!
    ++

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    1. simon and alisha can actually touch each other by that point - their trip to vegas was between season 2 and season 3, when the photo was taken. alisha gets rid of her power of instant sexual arousal on the christmas episode (last episode of season 2), which means that she can now touch simon. so, they can touch each other by this point meaning that the vegas photo is true.

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  10. Hey guys, I just finished the 3 Season and I really don't want to continue the show without Simon and Alisha but I didn't like the end. Of course with a futur Simon it was logical that he had to die again and again and the reason of a future Simon is caused by the death of Alisha. So in some way it's a romantic ending but dramatic.
    But I agree with you why future Simon say to Alisha that he would change the future for her... he can save her once but not twice ...
    The real question is did they killed them cause the actors wanted to leave the show?
    One last question : the photo in Las Vegas can't be true... they can't touch themselves yet .. This photo is taken a few months before Alisha change her powers :)
    Anyway love that show and this characters!
    ++

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  11. One thing I don't understand is how Simon and Alisha got together in the first place (without future Simon making her fall in love with him). The two of them never had a connection prior to future Simon's appearance, so I'm thinking the two of them got together somehow in the original timeline on their own.

    Just my thoughts but....

    Something happened to Alisha and Simon which caused Alisha to eventually fall in love with Simon (Simon already had a thing for Alisha for a while). Maybe in the original timeline Curtis met Nikki and eventually ended his relationship with Alisha which upset her or something. Alisha, being Alisha at the time, may have used her power on Simon (using sex as a way to comfort her, I don't know). However, Alisha starts falling for Simon.

    They develop a relationship. Skip forward to the Christmas episode, Alisha sells her power because she is tired of not being able to have an intimate relationship with Simon. Everyone else gets rid of their powers and you know the rest.

    My theory is probably flawed but that is how I imagine their union happening.

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  12. I don't get one thing! Logically,how is there a future Simon? Because it seems that Alisha would never have fall in love with Simon if the future Simon never traveled back from time. Like originally, in the first ever life of Alisha and Simon, how would a future Simon emerge without all the changes that the future Simon creates.It does not make sense to me. This is why future people should not interact with people from the past cuz it changes everything. Only in this situation they tried do that not realizing it still doesn't make sense logically.

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    1. This goes with my own thoughts, that the future Simon was the first one Alisha fell in love with, but that it happened in a more natural well(aka that Alisha never met a future Simon) and that that future Simon went back not long after the Game Guy shot her in his timeline.

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  13. Honestly my thought on it was the first future simon we saw went back after one of her deaths(you pick) to save her from it, not knowing of her throat being slit later, now this current simon going back will know of it and change things a little further, (possibly by being the victim of the ghost) and thus things go further, just my thought, possibly wrong as I know the whole paradox theory that he has to go back and all that but I've never bought much into those as for one, until we actually have time travel (likely never to happen) that theory is unproven, also not the only time theory either, so saying it's absolutely necessary for the time loop to exist doesn't really stick with me that well. Honestly I'd like to see (if the movie ever happens, which sadly also seems unlikely) Simon eventually work out the current loop and eventually Him and Alisha rejoin the gang.

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